Heffalumps and Woozles

Ray,

Please peruse my post "Liberal vs conservative where are you and why"

Perhaps it will show you where I am headed. We should ALL be against labels and propaganda....from both sides.

JWM

whitemanitou,

I'll take a look tomorrow at the thread you mention as you ask. But, I maintain my opinion in this thread. Your latest post states: "I only lump together those who repeatedly...." However, this is from your earlier post:

"...every single Neocon I know personally. There is a rigid rejection of any humanitarian need to help those who are beneath them. They make excuses. But, it is always the same."

Sounds like an awful lot of "lumping" to me - or you hang out with a VERY limited crowd of "Neocons". And for someone who professes to abhor labels, you sure use "neocons" an awful lot. Still sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

Ray, on the Neocon "grouping"

I have had much personal experience with co workers, boardmembers and neighbors who all say the same things about the same questions. They all react the same way to the same labels I have to hear this day in and day out (I started listening to conservative talk radio to try to understand.) I DO see the illogic in this belief and the lumping individuals in a group. But, DAMN! it's so predictable.

I started to understand after listening to conservative talk radio and how they "spin" the news. "Poor people just don't want to work." "This country has unlimited opportunities" (if you have the bucks to start up)."Those terrorists are gonna come get us if we don't kill them first." Discussion on the illegals gets really interesting. It goes from "Build a moat". to "round em up and execute em like the criminals they are" (This usually comes after an illegal has killed someone). You really should read some of Dink's other angry posts. They are classic examples of what I am talking about. After spending a few years listening to the radio spin, I think I finally understand what causes this reactionary mentality.Politics has always been cuthroat. But, this new breed of conservatives has taken it to a new low.

There does need to be some government intervention at times to make us do the right thing. Segregation is one example. The states would NOT have done that on their own. Having been around in those times, it was commonly referred to as "Communist influence". Is this where the Neocon gets the term "socialist" for any government program to help the downtrodden?

The point of my other thread was to get people to understand none of us fits completely into one category or another. It is the political propagandists (along with the radio talk show hosts and media whores) who make us believe we should be in one or the other.

Oops. Wrong place for comment.

Hey, WM, with all due respect, I've seen a huge number of "liberal" thinkers on TBD being very "pissed-off" about stuff. ; - ) It is not a phenomena of only the "neo con". I think neo-cons might want to state that defensiveness, pity parties, and "how dare you" comments are pretty common to the left-wing demos. Personally, I believe those are just human frailties & born of knee-jerk reactions.

I don't agree with anyone calling others names, but I'm no saint, and I agree with Dinky that Milt did seem to be insulting of our MIAs/POWs by insinuating they are stupid if they get captured by the enemy. And yes, I know Milt tried to get out of that one & it was considered "satire"?, but I would still like for him to explain what he meant if it wasn't an insult.

And WM, I doubt that any of these "insensitive" neo-cons would hesitate even a nano-second to help you, or anyone else, if they knew you were in trouble or needed assistance. I don't like people to assume because conservatives are "discriminating" on many issues, that we are not out there hugely participating in the charity work, rescue groups, etc.

Many of these "neo-cons" have fought for your freedoms & right to label & name-call. Remember, we're all human beings with the same needs, such as basic necessities of life, belonging, love, & respect.

For discussion purposes, I am VERY conservative, but vote issues, not on straight party lines. I personally think, though, that many liberals would not be liberal were it not for the fat-cat, good-ole-boy conservatives that want to line their own pockets without so much as a by your leave for "We the People". That is not the mindset of most conservative people that you work with or live side-by-side with . . .IMHO.

Judi,

There is some truth to your words. Politics is always an emotional

issue. And, I HAVE been personally helped by a NEOCON friend. I think what I react to myself is the same answers coming from either side. I find the attitude that the poor are poor because they are lazy, alcoholic or genetically inferior offensive. Yet, I hear it quite a bit. I find unquestioning obedience to ANY leader offensive. Yet how many simply will NOT look at evidence that wrong decisions have been made for the wrong reasons because "it would be treasonous"? And, you are certainly correct about ANY politician using his office for his or his buddy's gain being highly offensive.

I also find it very interesting the high concentration of conservative thinkers in Texas and the South. What that means, I am not sure.

Hi group, Dinky here.

It was said that... "Dink is typical of the Neocon mindset that backs the current admin.", well that would be wrong just like all the other silly accusations made here. I am certanily not lined up with President Bush on many of his items, on most of the domestic agenda he is dead wrong, if that idea makes me a Neocon, so be it.

Liberals have a propensity to make rash generalizations and even flat out lies, and then fish-tail all over the place when they are called on their mis-statement, mis-representations and outright lies. Just listen to what Obama and Clinton have been caught lying about recently... perfect examples of the Left. "I landed under intense sniper fire, all around me..." NOT! Liar.

I want to explain a few things, I am a retired U.S. Army Special Forces Ranger, winner of a Silver Star, Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts [I call them... Vietnamese sharp shooters medals] and I have earned the right to say what I wish, express my feelings and even have a super tiny penis, if that were true.

I call thing they way I see em and I suffer fools badly. I hold to what I said about Milt, he is a waste of skin, hiding behind and saying he didn't say what he said, you are a liar too Milt.

Trust me boys and girls when the fit hits the sham, you want me with you and not against you. I am a conservative and my values are not uncaring or unkind, I want everyone to be as good as they can be, whatever that is.

If it's sub-par then you have to live with that, I don't, it's not my personal job to provide for you. I didn't get special set asides, requirements lowered so I could get into collage or any special breaks, I did it myself and without spending time sideways in the public bank account, sucking on your money.

There is a safety net in our society if you are a minority, sick, disabled, or otherwise impaired, that is unless you are a white person, then all bets are off and you are on your own. Anyone who thinks that isn't true, well you must be a well intentioned liberal, or Milt.

Cya all round. Hugs Golanv, no worries, I'm tough enough to take the lies, misrepresentations, mis-characterizations and generalizations, because the sperm here doesn't have a clue who I am or what I'm about. They are in a battle of wits, unarmed and unqualified. "Too Bad! So Sad."