Groups > "How To Know Christ"

That's a good question, Rich! God intended the Church-Age believer to know Him through the Bible; however, He made it a supernatural experience so that we are changed from the inside-out.

God gave some men the spiritual gift of pastor-teacher (P-T), and all believers the filling of the Holy Spirit for the process of the metabolization of Bible doctrine.

The P-T is to teach from the original languages, not "translations" (he may use translations when he teaches). He teaches the history of both the words and the time in which the book was written, as well as word-for-word analysis and categories (e.g., doctrine of the Angelic Conflict, doctrine of Divine Essence, doctrine of Eschatology ).

In order to make the Word effective for the believer, the believer must be "filled with the Holy Spirit", meaning he confesses his sin in order to be in fellowship with God. Then the believer listens to the Word (being a "hearer" of the word), reads and studies DAILY. The more doctrine the believer metabolizes (receives, retains and applies), the more the Holy Spirit uses to supernaturally change the thinking of the believer, with resultant spiritual growth. This is when the "fruits of the Spirit" are outwardly manifested.

This is a grace system of learning that God gave us, and if you noticed, God the Holy Spirit is doing the work. This is important, because we cannot expect new or immature believers to be doing "divine works" apart from spiritual growth.

I hope this helps and doesn't confuse you more. There is much more to this system of thinking, but I gave a thumbnail sketch.

Thanks for the "thumbnail sketch". If you do not mind, I wonder if I might ask two questions at this point? And they are:

1.What is the doctrine of Divine Essence?

2.When Jesus taught in the temple in Jerusalem, what language did he speak when speaking with the Pharacees?

Thanking you in advance,

Sincerely,

Rich

I answered this question, but I think I must have placed it on another thread because I couldn't find this one. It's getting late, so I will try to figure out where I put it and answer this for you . . . I'm sorry. My life has been a bit wild for the last several months!!

Something that I find in the Bible that is for every believer:

So, Romans 10: 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Notice that verse 17 does not say hyper-faith cometh, so faith is sufficient. We are not interested in hyper-faith. What we want is faith. Why? Matthew 21. 21Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.” Now if Jesus had said: And all things, whatsoever we ask in prayer we shall receive, then we would all have it made. But he add the word “believing” there. Now “all things” is all things. All things includes healing. He did not say and all things but one thing – healing – did He? No He said “And all things, whatsoever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive. Well, all things includes healing so that is one way to receive your healing.

Jesus said to the woman with the issue of blood, “Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole.” (Matthew 9.22) God is no respecter of persons. If her faith is good enough to make her whole (nothing missing ; nothing broker), then our faith is good enough also.

In Mark 11.24. Jesus says “What things so ever you desire, when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.” Well that sounds a lot like Matthew 21.22. “And all things, whatsoever you ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive.” In neither instance does Jesus say hyper-faith. Not one place does he say hyper-faith. Everytime, Jesus says faith, your faith need not be what ever hyper faith is. Faith is good enough. Only believe with regular faith works. A lot of folks say they believe, but if they do, and then do not receive then Jesus is a liar. I just rather believe Jesus is telling the truth.

I also believe Isaiah is telling the truth, saying, “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.” Isaiah 53.5. Isaiah gives a preview of the work wrought at the cross. And he says with the stripes or with the bruises that Jesus took for us, “we are healed”. Well sounds to me as if healing was purchased for us as part of going to the cross. Jesus took a beating to purchase healing for us. And Jesus says we can take that gift with the hand of faith. It is ours. Healing belongs to us. Only believe.

"During that time, they did not have the full canon of scripture, so doctrine was taught and God communicated to His people by other means (e.g., water baptism, animal sacrifices, visions, stars, burning bushes, Angel of the Lord, and the Shekinah Glory or cloud that lead the Israelites through the wilderness)."

During which time? Full canon of Scripture? The Torah is what most of them had after Moses and that IS the Word of YHWH. Then came the writings and the prophets, The Torah is what all the other books of Scripture are judged off of in order to tell if they can be included in and that goes for the Renewed Covenant writings as well.

"Once we had the complete canon of scripture ("mind of Christ"), there was no more need for God to communicate with us,"

Actually the Torah is the MIND of Messiah or I should say the fulness of Messiah.

" to teach us His doctrine, in the ways that He had been using. God said there is only "one baptism", so, is that in water or in the Holy Spirit? Which do you think takes precedence, is more important? "

What does YHWH's Word say and why do the apostles stress it so much as to water immersion? WHen the Spirit of YHWH came aupon Cornelius and his household, Peter asks what keeps these from being immersed? So tell me which is necessary. Is the physical necessary or is it not and if it is not then why does our Master tell the Pharisees that they give a tithe of their spices etc but they neglect the weightier matters of justice and mercy and they should do the later WITHOUT forgetting to do the former. The spiritual is of first and it is acted out in the physical which IS based upon faith. God said there is only "one baptism", so, is that in water or in the Holy Spirit? Reread Acts 2:37-39 The Holy Spirit came usually after immersion and only before when YHWH had to demonstrate that Gentiles were to be included as well and be called Israel. So it takes faith to be immersed into water as Yahshua instructed.

You wouldn't happen to be a Karaite or Mamoinite Jew, would you? If you are, then there are about 3 whole discussion on Torah here on TBD. Am I also to believe you do not believe in the Trinity, as Christians know?

You wouldn't happen to be a Karaite or Mamoinite Jew, would you? If you are, then there are about 3 whole discussion on Torah here on TBD. Am I also to believe you do not believe in the Trinity, as Christians know?

I am an adopted Israelite, like Caleb, Ruth, Tamar, and Rahab and others.

There is another gentleman who believes along the same lines as I do but he is busy most likely because of the set apart times coming up. I believe that Yahshua and the Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) are one with the Father and are togehter called YHWH and there is plenty of Scripture to claim that even in the Torah.

What I am bringing out is that there are some inconsistencies and even errors in how our Messiah's Word and what Paul preached in Christian interpretation. You see Paul made a couple of defenses where he said that he did NOT teach against the Torah or the temple, yet many Christains tend to think he did and this is a wrong teaching.

Yahshua even stepped up the Torah and if He is God as most Christians believe and I do believe then there had better be some holy fear. For it states the Yahshua (Jesus) is the SAME yesterday, today, and forever. If this is true He is the giver of the Torah to Moses and His Word does NOT change unless there is an allowance for it in Torah. Yahshua said if you love Me keep My Commandments. Which ones? According to Hellenistic teaching it is only the ones that are to our benefit and that isn't correct.

Christians always talk about following Yahshua or the common phraseology of WWJD and I challenge it and most Christians don't like it because it puts them in an uncomfortable zone. I once believed much of what you believe except for the "once saved always saved" which is another wrong teaching but to be dealt with another day.

Did Yahshua eat unclean meat or tell His followers to eat it? Or to introduce a pagan holiday and then 'Christianize' it to make it good? Did Yahshua say it was OK to substitute Sunday for Sabbath? If so to any of thes I would really like to see the evidence. Yahshua told us in Matt. 5 that He did not come to do away with the Torah and Prophets but to fulfill them and we are to be examples of Yahshua for He IS our Master. Are you then following the Master and desiring that the Jews would see Him as their Messiah by making them jealous instead of having the Jews see you as a person who serves a foriegn god because you hate the thought of Torah?

Torah doe NOT mean "Law" this is a great misunderstanding. It does mean teaching or instruction and we are told by Paul that 'we are not under the Law' which is true but neither are we above the Law but that we are to UPHOLD the Law. mmmm What could this possibly mean?