The End of Natural Beauty?

Dewi,

Thanks for starting this thread here. I was going to reply to your comment yesterday in the other thread, but did not have time. This is something that I have lots of thinking and feeling about – sometimes contradictory. It is moments like this that I wish I was as good a writer as some of the professionals on this site. This may just turn into me rambling on, but I hope it makes sense in the end.

So first, about me. I wear makeup almost every day. I wax most of my face and several other body parts regularly. My husband got a great kick out of the posts where someone likened women’s shopping to men’s watching porn. I dye my hair and get my nails done regularly. I have had 2 cosmetic surgical procedures (did them both at the same time as I wasn’t sure I’d be willing to go back a second time). I work out 5 or 6 times a week and if I’m honest, I’ll admit that the health benefits are a good secondary result, but my primary motivation is to look good. Many people, upon learning the above about me assume that I am some sort of shallow, ditzy woman who has bought into the patriarchal definition of beauty and is afraid to let her inner beauty shine through. Other people are curious, interested, impressed, etc. And others share their stories with me or ask for my advice. People are all over the map on this one. And at various times, I’ve agreed with them all.

I am a victim of the western view of women’s beauty. I can’t help it – it is where I live and who I am. Mostly I feel good about myself and if getting something waxed or tucked puts a little extra spring in my step – why not? I used to think that I had a line at surgery, but a few yeas ago I crossed that line. I do say that looking at women who have had too many procedures makes me know that there is a line. As I’ve said in other posts, I have a deal with my daughter and my daughter-in-law that they won’t let me cross over the line. (I trust them and hope they stick to their end of the bargain, but no one else has been asked to set that line for me.) I readily admit to my 57 years and those who’ve been reading other posts know that I take every opportunity to talk about my new grandson (who will have a younger cousin any day now if all goes well). I am not trying to hide my age, but see no reason why I can’t be the best looking 57 year old I can be.

I am blessed to have a husband who I know would love me just the same if I wore makeup or not, if I had baggy eyes or not, etc. He spent much time talking with me about the surgery and encouraged me to reconsider. Once it was clear that I really wanted to do it, he was right there with me and was the best nursemaid a patient could ask for. (And in the end, says he is happy with the results).

I have issues with both sides of these kinds of discussions. I get angry with the men and women who think I’ve sold out and I get equally angry with folks who tell others what they should or should not be doing to look better (unless advice is asked for). In the hair dying thread (http://www.tbd.com/content/post/10599),, we read a whole range of feelings about that one simple grooming method. My guess is that every one I’ve mentioned here could elicit that same range. I think this is good.

I believe that we have a huge range of choices. Each of us will pick our comfortable spot on that continuum. That spot will be based on the culmination of all of our upbringing, some of the good and the bad that our mother’s taught us, our beliefs about our current situations, and in some cases our financial situation (some of this stuff costs lots of $$). We need to encourage each other to find the comfortable spot in this range and not to have unrealistic expectations (which in some cases is a big problem), to support each other’s decisions, and to celebrate the fact that we get to make these (and other) decisions ourselves – no government is making them for us.

Excellent post, Talia.

It's kind of odd i agree with most of what you have said yet, it has crossed my mind at times, In all honesty most of the people I have met that have had work done have looked kind of plastic, and fake. Ive always been a tomboy, dont dont know how to paint my nails without making a mess. i dont dont wear make up unless lm planning to take a picture, or a nice evening out.

The main reasons its crossed my mind lately is a few things maybe just turning 40. this last month hit me harder then I thought,

First thing i wish i could change is over the years moles have started appearing on my face. three on my nose alone one on my cheek one on my chin.

I recall seeing me grandmother like this when I was little. made me scared to get close to her, I think it had a lot to do with the fact in children's storys they always show the evil witch with warts all over.

next I had dental work started that the insurance never wound up covering and didnt get finished and it really messed up my smile,

then i have a medical condition that keeps me from doing anything thats repetitive. if i over do it in that area it locks my muscles up for days at a time, puts me in a lot of pain, so a trying to stay in shape hasnt been easy,

I really dont see me doing much outside of zapping a few moles and cosmetic dentistry. and dont think i could ever go as far as a face lift, or lipo.

I guess knowing how about what I would like to change, I just try to be understanding that there just feeling the same way about other areas for their own reasons and respect that there doing what makes them feel better.

I could never understand why people insist on trying to defy the natural aging process. I can see cosmetic surgery to improve awkward features like a nose that precedes you by three minutes or a chin that never seems to catch up. I can see facial abrading when acne has left your features scarred. But why go through all the pain and suffering to get smooth facial skin when the rest of you cannot really defy age? To me the most pathetic visual is a man or woman whose face is trying to look fifteen at fifty while his or her hands, neck, arms and legs are age appropriate. When you try to get all the parts replaced, you end up looking like something discarded after the Halloween Ball. Think MJ here, folks. All the emoluments in the world may make you greasy and smooth but they cannot restore what a half century or more of living has used up. I'd rather take the fifty dollars a bottle that they cost and apply it toward a trip to someplace in the world I haven't seen yet.

Vanity is a terrible obsession when all you can do is produce a solution that only is pleasing when seen through a funhouse mirror. It is like the man who gets hairplugs to cover nature's insistence that he follow the genetic code of his ancestors. Only Stevie Wonder can't tell that he looks like a vegetable garden that has been weeded ... poorly. And even Steve can tell if he happens to pat him on the head!

I am sorry to be such a wet blanket on this issue but it is my feelings and I am entitled to them.

It is like my latest good news/bad news jokes about my state of aging: The good news is that at age 68, I still have all my hair. The bad news is that most of it is in a ziplock bag. And then he said ... The good news is that I am still spry enough to catch any ground ball I could catch at seventeen. The bad news is, now I have to wait until it stops rolling.

My doctor is still laughing about my latest body parts joke. When I went for my last checkup and he asked how I am doing, I told him that I had bad news. I said, "My knees are on their last legs."

Getting old isn't fun but if you think people judge a fifty or sixty year old by the number of wrinkles in his or her skin, you have a skewed view of mankind. The reality is, the young ones put us all aside like we are yesterday's news no matter how we prop up our faces, tone our sagging bodies or dress age-inappropriate. They laugh at our pathetic attempts to look like them. The truth is that plastic surgery can get you a young lover but that is simply because they know that if you could afford what it took to fix you, you will have enough left over to make their lives easy ... which is what a lot of the fun-seeking generation that we spawned is looking for.

Life is so much more than appearance when you are of a certain age. It is about what you contribute to those you helped create - your children, and their children. It is about treating your partner (if you have one) with dignity and respect despite the fact that he or she is not as nubile or as mobile as he or she was when you two met.

Any twenty year old can outrun me, outlift me and out f___ me. But I daresay, not a single one of them can outthink me and I intent to keep that title long after that twenty year old has become bald, paunchy and fearful that he or she has "lost it" ... whatever "it" is.

If you have your health and enough money to consider face lifts, thank God for the good health, good mind and good luck that got you there. If God meant for us to return to our youth, He or She would have made clocks that run backward. We fool nobody but ourselves when we try to paste a twenty year old face on a sixty year old body. And, as for the horror stories that come with our vain attempts to hold back what nature intended ... remember the old canard: Say that you have a plan and watch how God laughs!

Lollipops and unicorns

haven't weighed in on this discussion until now, but wanted to thank you for your insights and experiences. well done, and most helpful!

MiltT, as you can tell from reading my earlier post, you and I do not agree on this subject. My point in posting again here is not to change your mind, but rather to get some further understanding. Although I think you overstate the look of someone with cosmetic surgery (the ones that are not obvious are, in fact, not obvious), but I more want to understand the issue of not messing with God's plan for our aging. I'm really serious here - not trying to slam you. I wonder where the line is. Do we take vitamins? use some lotion for our dry skin? fix an obvious abnormality (who gets to decide what an obvious abnormality is)? get non-cancerous moles removed? whiten our teeth? Again, I am not trying to be sarcastic. From your other posts, I know you as a thinking person, so I ask serious questions. This is an issue for me - I try to figure out where the lines are and I am curious as to how other people define what is above and what is below the line. Thanks in advance for what I know will be a thoughtful response.

I don't have a problem with women doing whatever they want cosmetically, be it surgery, makeup, or anything in between.

I do have a problem with people telling women they don't know what kinds of cosmetic procedures they should do, be it surgery, tweezing, or anything in between.

Beauty is a very subjective, personal thing. You may think I look terrible, but if I think I look just fine, what business is it of yours to tell me otherwise? (Unless, of course, you are my significant other or close relative -- and even then . . . .)