Oooh, Margevans since you mentioned Gandhi, can I have a little aside?

A few years ago I went to the zoo in Subic Bay, Philippines. They have a tiger safari and when you sign up for it, you can buy a chicken to feed to the tigers. My son did so, having no idea what was in store.

The tour is taken in a Jeepney, the local form of public transport, which has open (but barred) widows. The tigers were hungry. The chicken handlers tied the chickens by a string to their ankles and dangled them out the windows, laughing. The chickens lost their limbs a bit at a time, then were pulled back into the Jeepney only to be tossed out again, flapping and screeching, until all hope was gone.

We exited at the end of the "safari" overcome with a feeling of "did that just happen, really?" Not to mention nausea. At the gateway out of the safari park was a sign with a quote by the venerable Mahatma Gandhi:

"A nation is judged by the way it treats its animals."

Powerful words and I believe true. I see it in my own area. Dogs tied outside, left out there to be ignored. Or as our neighbor does, leaves their dog to run after losing another that got hit by a car.

Cats just left to fend for themselves. We live on a dead end road and before it was paved, so many dogs and cats were dropped off. That is how I got my dog Chip,who I just lost a month ago.

That must've been shocking on that trip. I can't imagine.

Here in the U.S. we need to take a look at how we treat animals. Thanks for sharing.

Sad to know it happens there as well. Here, it is common. Most people with dogs keep them in pens most of the day. Hell, they still eat them in the North! And where I live, which is a pretty upscale community, is infested with starving feral cats. Last year, the community association rounded up a few dozen of them to give to a shelter but before the next day dawned someone had shot them all.

Sorry for the thread jack... I often read the Gandhi quotes and wonder that humanity hasn't listened, as a rule.

Oh, and I also love Mark Twain :)

I would offer a thought here, for consideration:

Dogs are pack animals. Dogs in the wild will have a "den", a place hollowed out by digging or natural cover, where they can back in and lie down. That "den" is shelter and protection in cold, with pups or in the absence of the rest of the pack. If the dog is ALONE, he will GO TO THAT DEN.

Now, if a human has a dog, and they leave during the day to go to work, etc. which is more cruel? To leave the dog to wander alone through the house? Or to be put into its "den", to be and FEEL safe and secure, until its "pack" returns?

Dogs do not eat, drink, urinate or defecate in their dens, either.

How many people do you know with neurotic dogs, who "have it made"? That dig and chew and howl, when left alone during the day? That "den" (read: cage) would resolve a great deal of that, and few (when penned properly) resist it.

And why not eat dogs? We eat cows, pigs, chickens, calves, lambs, sheep...I don't want to eat dog, but that's cultural conditioning ONLY...

Ok, first of all I don't have cows as pets. But I have had dogs as family members. Yes, family members. A dog looks at your family as his pack.

We are not a society that eats dogs in the U.S. We don't sell dog meat, we don't raise them for meat and we should never do so. Please, I have had many dogs growing up and as an adult who were happy, well taken care of.

I just lost my best friend a month ago. Chip was a 14 yr old dog who was dumped off on our dead end road. No, he would not have survived. There are mtns all around us and we live off of a state rd. So, yes he would have died.

People in the U.S. need to learn to respect domestic animals. People need to get the pets they are responsbile for fixed.

This discussion has wandered way off subject. But I will say those animals that are raised to be meat, also don't need to be tortured to do it.

As for dogs being meat,or cats, forget about it.

And dogs that are in people's homes like mine do not suffer until the rest of the pack gets home.

My dogs and cats I grew to love. They have personalities. They are always there for me, as I for them.

No, they are not meat ready to eat.