God no, a retreat is too self serving. I guess the rich need access to spirituality and exclusive workshops works for them. But for me I see it as a big waste of money. But that is for me. I have also seen too much fraud in the "Spiritual Growth" for sale business. Before I would even look I would want to see some things. First, what is done is open, all material covered is public and freely available. There are not spiritual secrets. Second, the goals of this class or retreat is clear. I like the open courseware model as followed by MIT (http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm).

Hi Wayne,

The voice of the skeptic is a healthy voice to have in your arsenal but not necessarily as a primary one.

When you say 'self', which one do you speak of. The puny ego or the Higher Self or True Self which has never entered the stream of time and is the aspects of even you that is paying attention to this very sentence. Differenciating the self from the Self is one key to releasing yourself and those around from the confusion of unnecessary suffering.

And, I completely agree with you, there are no spiritual secrets. But, does that give us the right to deny the possible cost involved with the evolution of consciousness (subjective) and culture (inter-subjective)?

Nonetheless, if you took your time to review the 'cost' of the work with Genpo Roshi you would realize that it is on a 'donation' basis. Which means, it is open to all. Skeptics and those who cannot afford to pay anything at all.

With love and Peace,

Mick.

Dear Wayne,

I understand your skepticism. If you want to see the material in this particular one just go here:

www.zen-eye.org

Gracias,

Debora.

Now you are talking about someone specific. I am not familiar with Roshi but I did a quick seach. I have a lot of respect for the Zen approach. There is a lot of free material on it as well as low cost mass produced materials.

I would advise one to start with the free, then buy the book and CD. Read up on what others have to say on Zen Buddism and Buddism (I love "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" and have on my reading list "Zen, Project Management, and Life") then go to a workshop or attend a local event.

Even if attendance is free getting to one of his sites is beyond the means of a large segment of our population.

namatase Debora, May the vibrance of the stillness in silence transcend your consciousness to your serendipity of self............... and for those that truly seek this path of true self, may it be filled with the unmeasured abundance of joy. i must complement you on your fervor i feel the energy of your sacred candle it lights the sky from the passion from with in self. retreats are places where like minded people gather to harness energy............. the rewards are unsurmountable...... you seem to know allready what your focus is yes with all unknown there is an always uncertainty. some years ago i went on a retreat,it was a very humbling experience,yet very rewarding. no only did i meet people i would love to emulate,but it was a reaffirmation of "all" i had "allways" beleived in. Enlightenment is a non relative or absolute position,and spiritual practice,when undertaken with a passionate intention to evolve,is an expression in action of that nonrelative or absolute relationship to your own experience. authentic spiritual practice is the conscious resolute expression of inherent freedom absolute conviction, and unshakable intention,beyond the endless wavering of the ego,for the sake of the evolution of consciousness itself- - i think this little peice sums up the joy and rewards of what we seek....enjoy...

I was talking in general terms. Do a google on "Spiritual Retreat".

Here is a good guide on how to spot a fake: http://www.flameout.org/flameout/gurus/fake.html or this: http://www.flameout.org/flameout/gurus/index.html

Like I said, I don't know Genpo Roshi.

Dear Wayne,

As we said, the voice of the skeptic is a great voice. But once you own it, you should be skeptic of everything and everybody, including the teacher as well as those who speak about the teacher and other teachers.

About Genpo Roshi, that is just my example, I am going to his teachings, because to me they are my teaching in this moment.

But in this post I don´t mean that everybody has to go to see him, that was just my example. I would like to know and to hear about your experiences in retreats with whoever the teacher is!!!

Gracias amigos,

Debora.