Hmmm... Interesting. I wonder ... is this really the first time this was demonstrated? Years ago I worked with a project involving sign language using Chimpanzees ... it was well documented that Chimps were capable of generating unique language concepts, lying to avoid punishment, demonstrating compassion and empathy and anticipating events to occur in coming days. I don't wish to detract from the Osvath research, but I suspect that it more confirms the hypothesis of advanced planning in a "non-human species" rather than "is the first to provide conclusive evidence." THe project I was involved with was the "Washoe Project" ... and I am aware that similar kinds of observations were made with the Gorilla Koko at Stanford University.

I wonder how the activities of honey bees and some species of ants would meet the definition of "advanced planning capacities in non-human species."

I agree some of the Washoe stuff appeared to demonstrate planning. But experts claimed they were examples of associative learning.

This did some work that specifically excluded that possibility.

Jane Goodall's observations of Chimps in the wild also clearly demonstrated planning ... use of tools, making "war" on other chimp groups and hunting ... These were observations from which certain conclusions were drawn as opposed to observations suggesting hypotheses to be tested ..

Her work was very good but it did not conclusively demonstrate teh kind of decision making this study did.

This study demonstrated not only planning but the kind of planning that requires making choice between "right now" and some future reward.

More than one piece of colored glass is needed for a complete mosaic ... It's very interesting, Fromz ...

Tell ya what.

I'm pretty sure there isn't a primatologist alive today who hasn't studied Washoe and Goodall in some detail.

But if you think you've got the credentials to challenge them on this, you can contact the authors here: mathias.osvath@lucs.lu.se

I'm sure they could use a laugh.

I'm not challenging them, Fromz ... I'm just saying it's not really new information, but perhaps a new piece that fits in the grand picture. As you know, science is simply the process of adding weight or not to hypotheses ... this is another weight on that scale. Primatologists have known for a long time that the higher primates, of which we are simply the most advanced (the "Third Chimpanzee" as Jarad Diamond calls us,) think, plan, use tools, and have rudimentary communication. It's not new ... what's new perhaps is the data that documents it.

I worked with the Washoe project in Graduate School. I am fluent in sign language and can even say I have "spoken" with her and, along with many others, I worked with and for both Drs. Gardner on the project.. I have met and spoken with Jane Goodall a couple of times. Most would not laugh derisively but, rather, in nodding confirmation ...

I'm not trying to make an argument, as your note seems to imply. The information is interesting, even fasinating, but the tectonic plates of primatology didn't move. We humans are not as unique as we sometimes think and many of our basic qualities exist in a fundamental way in our primate cousins.

And, as you know, primatologists agree as well as disagree on many, many things. I suspect, my friend, that you and I would agree on more than we disagree ...