Dear Yorker85 and Teddybear,

Father, faithful husband, good friend, loyal, trustworthy--these are impressive things to be. Meeting your responsibilities and being a role model--I admire your definition of a real man.

For myself, I have always wanted to think of myself as a person, first, and then as a woman. I'd like to be able to think of my men friends as people, first, and then men. Gender is important biologically and socially, but not as important as humanity.

It seems to me that a person who is good (good parent, faithful spouse, good friend, loyal trustworthy, responsible) will be a good example of his or her gender as well.

I concur completely. Since this group is about Men, I wrote it that way. I view people as people first. I see people defining themselves by their gender all the time and it drives me nuts. You are what you are and you should learn to take pride in something other than the biological crapshoot of gender.

yorker85:

I couldn't agree with you more. You describe what I consider to be a real man and hope for my son to be when he is grown. I don't think being a 'real man' has anything to do with macho, or the job you do, or how much weight you can lift, etc. It has to do with being a responsible, upstanding, caring person of integrity.

I agree with yorker...allow me to add please...I think its STILL holding doors open for ladies, young or old, helping them with packages, using terms like please, thank you...giving a smile, a helping hand...a compliment...teaching your children these respects...its a thrill for me to hear people tell me how mannerly, respectful, and pleasant my 21 year old son and 18 year old daughter are. Its treating people with respect and honor...that's how you earn the same.

forgot to add...you do these things for fellow men too...not just ladies...everyone deserves respect...until they betray yours...

I love a man who will hold the doors for me, help me off with my coat in the Winter, pull out the chairs for me, etc. This is not just a "real man," but a gentleman, too. We all want to raise our sons to be just that!! RESPECTFUL of others!!

I'm a lot late, but I think this was a wonderful discussion..

teddybear