Hi Mick

Here you go again – trying to teach this ‘slightly older dog new tricks’.

Maybe if I knew then what I know now – I’d probably answer your question with a ‘yes’.

Maybe if I hadn’t bought into the lie that I was the cause of another’s suffering – in my case, my mother’s – I might not have suffered.

Maybe if I hadn’t heard & internalized & believed lies about myself – I might not have suffered.

I reflect back and think I began waking up – becoming conscious – when I had kids of my own. I was determined they wouldn’t ‘suffer’ as I had. What I didn’t realize at the time – I still had a lot of waking up to do. Did my kids suffer? I asked them both this question recently – they both said they were ‘bored’ as kids.

Maybe if I had been ‘ready’ I might not have taken so long to get here. I don’t know the answer to that one. Am I ‘ready’ now to let go of the suffering – or in my terms – beat my head against the brick wall? You bet – having 6 grandchildren is doing that for me.

Take care, Deb

Thank you, Mick and Deb, we are all teaching, healing, and growing together. Deb, I am glad that you are finding healing, transformation, and the ability to let go of some of your previous suffering, via joy with your six grandchildren.

I am continuing on my spiritual journey to absorb the profound wisdom of Jesus, the Buddha,Gandhi,the Dalai Lama, Kahlil Gibran, Mother Teresa, Thich Nhat Hanh, Eckhart Tolle, and so many, who've found the path to spiritual enlightenment and awakening.

Forgiveness, of myself, and others, which has been written about on two tbd threads on that topic, has been key for me.

Mick, to answer your question:

"As I strive to uncover the Buddha within, would I bequeath my current state of spiritual health on my children?"

No, I would not, as I have not yet mastered completely letting go of past hurts, and I do still sometimes bring inappropriate worries and baggage into the present and future. I do not like this aspect of myself; and am working daily to change, from within.

Yin and Yang: we are,indeed, works in progress; and I am taking to heart Mahatma Gandhi's wise words:

"YOU must be the change that you seek in the world."

Thank you Deb! That is great about asking your kids if they suffered. What do you make of that answer they gave? May I ask what your motive for asking? Also, I am not sure I buy the 'slighly older dog' story, c'mon, you are in plenty of time to be a fully awakened grandma! Can you imagine, the grandkids come over and say to your son / daughter, "where's grandma?" To which they reply, "ssh, she is meditating." And then one grandkid turns to the other and says..."let's go join her."

And southerbl! Great response, thank you. Do you council your kids against having their own until they have reached a point of sufficient spiritual clarity on the path of awakening.

So much learning, so little time; or not!

my best to you,

Thanks, Mick, Deb, and others for your thoughtful insights.

Hi Mick & southerbl,

That I succeeded in not creating the same environment as I'd grown up in - fighting - alcoholism - neglect - abuse. It took a lot of energy to do this because, like I said I was still waking up. What I wish I'd shared with them was some of the methods I used to process things. My daughter recently told me she'd never seen me vulnerable - asking for anything - that I always presented the picture of strength. Some day, I told her, she can read my journals. lol

Both of my kids have chosen the long way in life. I forgot to teach them to listen to their mother - maybe they'd learn how to avoid some pitfalls. So, I have done a lot of soul searching about my role as a parent for too long. About a year ago, I forgave myself for believing that I had failed them and therefore caused their suffering. But during this time, that's when I asked them both about what they remembered most. Bored - that tells me their mother did way too much for them - maybe I'm wrong - but that's what comes up for me.

Your comments about being a fully awakened gramma brings tears to my eyes - how amazing would that be. I've already had a few conversations with them along these lines.

I have to say - I'm feeling so relaxed and mellow these past few days - loving it.

southerbl,

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were talking about my two kids. In time, my daughter (the oldest) is learning to release her anger & negativity - now that her oldest (also a girl) is beginning to display similar issues.

I could go on for eons, sorry.

Take care, Deb

Hi Mick

I opened a discussion this morning called "Unique Mother's Day Gift" - in it I talk about my son & what an amazing gift his actions have given me today. The reason I'm bringing it here too is that for all the questions, pain & suffering - anguishing as to my role as their mother I've been through - all the processing I've been doing - letting go of the baggage really brings it home for me how we just never know what ripple effect our actions will have sometimes.

I had a brief conversation with him the other night about 'his beliefs' - he said he hasn't totally defined them - but that most of it is just 'common sense'. Well, after hearing what he did this morning, I really like his 'common sense'.

I wanted to mention this here because he's helped to prevent possible suffering.

I also want to thank you again for 'challenging' me in the Dali Lama thread.

Take care, Deb

"There was a man in the land of Uz, and his name was Job; And that man was perfect and upright, and one who feared God, and eschewed evil". (smile) You knew this was coming, didn't you? The problem of seemingly "unnecessary" suffering is ancient. As old as humans have suffered without knowing why. "Why does a good man suffer, and evil prosper?" Indeed. In this old Biblical story, it is sort of a "wager" between God and Satan. The Satan of this story is much different that in later times, and certainly different from the "Devil" of later Christian traditian. He is actually "invited" to a gathering of sorts before the throne of God, along with the other "sons of God" (archangels?). Where has Satan been? Well, checking out the world and all its inhabitants. They are a pretty sorry lot. They do and think evil continually. But, what about Job? >> Oh, well, why wouldn't Job be a faithful and upright man "before the Lord"? See how he has been blessed?...prosperity, health, a loving family...many friends. "But, (and Satan makes his wager, here) smite him...and he will curse Thee to Thy face"...>> The wager is now on >> Satan is given "permission" to plague Job with calamities and diseases. You can read the outcome for yourself. A "primitive" type of theology? Maybe, ,...or, maybe not. What is your take? Have you ever felt that the harder you strove toward the Divine, the more problems you seemed to have in life? While those who appeared not to "give a s**t" seemed to be happy and carefree? I have. Many times. There is no easy answer for this. In fact, Job is never really given a very good answer, even by God, Himself, in my opinion. Had Job not achieved "full consciousness"? We are assured that he had. At least in the world as he understood it. He is then thrust into a world which is totally contrary to the world as he knows it. Reality "takes a hike". How do you deal with a warped reality? Who do you turn to?