I would love to hear from you on your definition of spiritual practice. We may have experiences of this as yoga, meditation, petitionary or contemplative prayer, abstinence, extreme experiences; maybe we see it in our relationships, social activism or acts of charity. But if spiritual practice includes all of the above (and more I am sure to hear about), how can we wrap it up in a nice summary and tie a pretty bow around it? Another question that may come to mind now is why would we want to do this? Well, when we are clear about what spiritual practice is, it might make it a little bit harder to deny the presence of its opposite in our lives (I said might... :)
[fyi: My wife, Debora, and I are traveling for classes over the next 2 weeks so my presence on tbd may be a bit thin during that time.]
I look forward to hearing from you.



Posted: Feb 6, 08 5:48am
Spiritual practice comes to me through quiet meditation. I prefer to be near water, as I grew up on an island & until 9 years ago, had the ocean & sound nearby. But I have learned to adapt & clear my "cobwebs" as I put it, regularly through sitting quietly in a room. Sometimes my meditation comes through writing as well. I find it very therapeutic.
Posted: Feb 10, 08 12:41am
What's up Mick? Hope the classes trip is fun. Okay here's the comment on this one...if it's something we practice is it spiritual? Or is it a method or a discipline to achieve...to become somehow better inwardly? Is it like this...I'm this now but if I chant, say mantras, sit in postures etc. I'll then become that. Or is it as simplistic as what Michaelangelo said when he was asked how he made such beautiful statues..."The beauty of the statue is already there, all I have to do is move away the excess marble".
Posted: May 4, 08 3:16am
Reminds me of the Sufi saying, "You are a ruby embedded in granite. How long will you pretend it's not true?"
Posted: Feb 12, 08 3:22pm
To me it is an everyday life style. It is a set of moral and social values that make us who we are. What do we want for others and not so much for ourselves. My everyday walk is my spiritual practice. Trust me, in my life,loving my fellow man takes alot of spiritual practice.If i believe in sitting on the ocean and chanting, what happens when i'm not sitting on the beach but at a crowded store with long lines and somebody waits till the check out is done to start writing a check. Then they make a mistake and have to start over and the pen stops, Sorry, still need more practice.
Posted: Feb 13, 08 3:44pm
James Brown, "Sex Machine" turned up to 11, and room to move.
Get UP! (get on up!)
Posted: Feb 26, 08 9:58pm
Closed for repairs. :-}
Posted: Feb 17, 08 3:35am
When I am confronted with problems, I ask to be shown the solutions. I either ask out loud, in prayer or I shamanically journey for the answers. The answers may not come right away. But, they will come as long as I am paying attention. When I do NOT pay attention, the answer can sometimes be quite harsh.
Posted: Feb 19, 08 12:16pm
Stop. Look. Listen.
Anytime. Anywhere.
Shhhhhh.
There it is (call it what you will - God, Love, Cosmic Force, Mantra, Karma, Jesus's Love, God's will...whatever)
Shhhhh.
There it is. Inside, outside, everywhere, in everything.
Tap in. Touch it. Feel it. Groove with it. Share it.
Stop. Look. Listen.
Why not now?
It's always there, waiting for your call 24-7. Operators are standing by!
Posted: Feb 26, 08 9:53pm
WM, I don't understand a number of things from your post above. Do you mind clarifying, please?
When you ask to be shown solutions to your problems, who are you asking? How do you know when the answer comes?
You said the solutions to your problems come as long as you pay attention, then you said the answer can sometimes be quite harsh when you're not paying attention. Does this mean that answers do come when you're not paying attention, they're just harsh? What is a harsh answer? Thanks, Judi
Posted: Mar 2, 08 7:33pm
as is often the case, white manitou and i are totally on the same page, paragraph and sentence.
one major thing that many people find argument with me is that spiritually, i believe that we create our reality and good and terrible things happen. most people blame God which for me makes no sense. i believe that horrific events occur for very specific reasons for those of us that remain in an incarnate state. how we deal with the grief and sorrow and how we choose to heal and find faith and hope within ourself and others is a part of why we are here on this planet. as a human being with a human heart, i am very sensitive to the pain and horror that happens every day in this world and yet my sorrow is not for the dead but for the families and loved ones left behind. my trust and belief system is so strong that i believe and know that passing back over to what we call the "afterlife" is not a punishment or an accident. it is part of a plan, however, free will always exists. my own sons have struggled with this and one still does. i strongly suggest to them to explore Buddhism and to study the i ching. to open themselves back up to what they already know but are denying in their lives. Throughout their lives, they've been exposed to many religions and philosophies but they just weren't ready to finally take the steps to learn and accept.
I learned active meditation in my early 20's and began to learn about metaphysics. it was like coming home for me. it was like i knew it but had forgotten it.
some religions generally scare me with their over-involvement in their parishioners' lives, use of guilt and threats. i try very hard not to be judgmental of some religions that make little sense to me, most of them in our country.
but everyone must find their way and truth. some take longer than others and some know it from childhood. knowing and practicing are two very different things however. giving and caring and loving has been my entire adult life and i know that i have set a good example for my kids. but anyone can do random acts of kindness and include their kids in it as well. i will never forget the time when my son was 10 and he went with me on Christmas Eve morning to a home of a very impoverished family who literally had nothing. I'd spent two months preparing for this family of 8 and my son and I took everything to this family from a gift certificate to a grocery store to Christmas presents for every child - and a tree!! not only was the family overwhelmed but more importantly to me, my son was in tears when we were done and back in the car. his tears were tears of understanding and knowing true kindness and it has thankfully stayed with him all these years since.
Posted: Mar 2, 08 7:48pm
Mockingbird,
Very nicely stated!
True kindness without expectations of anything in return is priceless.
Thanks,
Amy
Posted: Mar 2, 08 7:54pm
Yes, thanks Mockingbird for reminding us of selfless service to others!
Posted: Feb 19, 08 12:40pm
I agree that compassionate attention to the present moment, moment by moment, is the best direction any good spiritual practice takes me.
Posted: Feb 19, 08 1:24pm
Spiritual practice is best defined as 'fighting inertia'. What is 'inertia?'
The part of ourselves that: 1. Does not wish to express our full potential or 2: Knows that our full potential is being restrained but denies that fact.
Posted: Feb 20, 08 8:08am
Mick, that is a clarifying explanation. It seems that there are some people who just seem to be more spiritually inclined than others. Some people dont give a 'hoot' about spiritual practices. I never could understand that. Whenever Im not sure what to do, what direction to take, meditation, mantra japa, light yoga and diet are some of the spiritual practices I use to gain clarity, or "fight inertia". Once free from whatever was holding me back from greater clarification or enthusiasm during that time or moment, than I can focus into the expression of compassion in the present moment. The practice of compassionate thinking is also a spiritual practice I use when Im feeling clear.
Posted: Feb 20, 08 6:09am
Mick:
That is one of the best definitions I have ever heard!!!
Posted: Feb 20, 08 11:00am
neeraja,
'spiritually inclined' smells a tad like a cop-out...
There are those who want to evolve and those who don't...
Which camp are you in?
Posted: Feb 20, 08 11:24am
In my opinion we are all spiritually evolving whether we are all conscious of it or not. Spiritual practice can be anything the practitioner considers it to be. What works for one person may not for another. I suppose thats why we as a human race have come up with many different forms and ideas on what spiritual practice is. As long as we arent hurting ourselves or anyone else why judge? Mick, as far as "what we are ignoring" and "presence of opposites" is a reoccurring theme and what is it that you want to address, or us to address? Sometimes spiritual practice is dying, torture, etc. That is how some people find spiritual significance in their lives. How else could a person come to terms with their (sometimes appearing useless) suffering? What Mick are we ignoring?
Posted: Feb 20, 08 1:25pm
What about that scary dude in "The Da Vinci Code", with the freakin' leg iron (cilice?), whipping himself and all that? Kinda bends your brain a little to include that as a "spiritual practice", doesn't it? Or consider Voudon (voodoo) spiritualism.
I don't know that, in these cases, overcoming inertia could also be defined as realizing one's full potential. I suspect that there are many "spiritual practices" out there that have nothing to do with realizing one's full potential. As I think about it, probably most prayer, as it is practiced in the major religions, is more about entreating a deity to do something: bring rain, deliver so & so's soul into heaven, destroy The Great Satan, win the lottery, show the homosexuals the errors of their ways etc. etc. etc.
So, Mick, while I like your definition and can certainly apply it to my own spiritual practice (which primarily involves the ingestion of copious quantities of distilled spirits...:), I'm not sure it works for what most religions would define as "spirituality" or "spiritual practice". Your thoughts?
Posted: Feb 20, 08 4:44pm
Nareeja,
Your overcoming inertia by the means you described IS NOT ignoring. It is actively pursuing advancement. The clarity you receive and the compassion you are able to maintain focus upon is one of the manifestations of your active pursuit of wisdom. You don't seem to be ignoring anything.
John WM
Posted: Feb 21, 08 11:30am
Don't go vague on me now neeraja,
You ask "what are we ignoring?"
Ask instead, what am I ignoring?
Am I ignoring inertia in my own life?
Posted: Feb 21, 08 11:35am
Mick, its a tradition in my family to respond by saying "we", so its just a natural response!
Posted: Feb 21, 08 11:35am
To tweedeldum,
It think you have the point there... so (when you are sober!) there can be some acknowledgement of interia and therefore the choice to do something about it. Freedom, afterall, is a choice.
Religion is a stepping stone to fighting interia, a phase its members must go through until they can accept responsibility for their own actions and stop looking to some old man in the sky to do it for them or some dude on a cross who took their sins away or to some reward in the afterlife. The reward is in fighting inertia now, no reward, just fighting...
Posted: Feb 22, 08 12:18pm
neeraja,
We are all NOT "spiritually evolving whether we are all conscious of it or not", most certainly not.
Yes, maybe this epoch we find ourselves in is a tad more evolved than the dark ages, but... the evolution of your consciousness (or awareness or attention) is your choice. It does not and will not (ever) happen by itself.... please!
Posted: May 4, 08 3:33am
I think I'm in agreement with Mick that not all people are evolving spiritually. In fact--though maybe I'm just not looking in the right way--in my experience, really spiritually dynamic people are actually pretty rare. Certainly everyone is presented with opportunities (call it karma, fate, fortuna, what have you) to "evolve", however "many are called but few are chosen", as the saying goes.
Posted: Feb 21, 08 12:23pm
Mick: I loved your last comment. I don't give out praise lightly.
Posted: Feb 22, 08 12:19pm
whiteman! I am honored, dude! :)))
Posted: Feb 24, 08 10:31pm
Mick...And I loved your comment to tweedle dum..."some dude on a cross" that one took some set of cajones...but I'm sure with you on the essence of it. Been thinking more about this topic...spiritual practice always seems to move towards some accomplishment in the future...just as evolving does...there is this constant internal "movement" of becoming. Some projected state of being that will happen down the line. Something about that doesn't jive with staying in the present.
warmly,
K
Posted: Feb 21, 08 8:08pm
Mick - as I said, I agree re: fighting inertia = realizing full potential. For me, and you, and the Great White Manitou, and many others. My point is, I don't believe that that it's the fundamental objective of most of today's major religions. I would postulate that most of the practitioners of most of today's major religions have any intention of realizing their personal spiritual potential. They're looking to be saved. Or looking for 40 virgins. They're looking for something that's gonna happen after they die...
I dunno. I'm trying to tee up a more general discussion on spirituality as it's positioned by some of the major world religions, I guess. That's where I was trying to go anyway...
Posted: Feb 21, 08 9:04pm
Tweedle:
That is the difference between religion and "Spiritual practice". You kind of defined it.
:-)
Posted: Feb 22, 08 11:35am
Christians aren't "looking to be saved", we are already saved. Also, it would be extremely sad that we waited until after we died to have a relationship with God. Our spiritual practice should be a daily, moment-by-moment walk with God.
Christian purpose: glorification of the Lord Jesus Christ in time.
Christian objective: achieve spiritual maturity.
Christian policy: grace (what God does for us, not what we can do for God; gifts throughout time & eternity)
Result: making good decisions in life from a position of strength in the divine system, control of one's life, & a personal sense of destiny
As far as realizing our personal spiritual potential . . .
The function of the spiritual life for a Christian depends on the three spiritual skills:
1) The filling of the Holy Spirit (daily acknowledging of our sins & agreement with God to repent [change our mind about the acknowledged sin(s)]
2) The metabolization of bible doctrine (daily intake, belief, and utilization of doctrine).
3) The utilization of ten problem-solving devices.
1. Rebound
2. The Filling of the Holy Spirit
3. Faith-Rest
4. Grace Orientation
5. Doctrinal Orientation
6. A Personal Sense of Destiny
7. Personal Love for God the Father
8. Impersonal Unconditional Love for all Mankind
9. Contentment and Perfect Happiness with God
10. Occupation with the Lord Jesus Christ
Well, that's just a very brief thumbnail sketch of Christianity.
Posted: Feb 22, 08 12:32pm
Judi,
Being already saved is perfectly correct. Well stated there! I have a few questions for you on the rest of your post here.
Do you agree that salvation can be defined as being One with God.
Being saved, does this mean also that you, Judi, are as evolved as or more evolved than Jesus?
If so, why is there a need for a 'relationship' (which implies duality, the point opposite of being 'One with'?)
How do you, Judi, answer these four questions: (Yes or No answers only, I know you have a penchant for words)
1. I have implicit trust in myself and in the process of life.
2. I do not create any unnecessary personal suffering for others or myself.
3. All of my primary relationships are free from personal conflict.
4. I come together with others in relationships beyond all individual and collective conditioning into which I was born.
Posted: Feb 22, 08 12:38pm
Tweedldum,
You are right. Spiritual practice defined as it is here as 'fighting inertia' is most certainly not the point of today's major religions (except Christianity 'cos that's not a religion ;) so let's all move on and get to your thoughts from your last paragraph.
Re-think your last paragraph that begins 'I dunno' and then (maybe after you tee up a nice round of golf) come back and start a new thread with your thoughts here, you've got something good!
After you die it the same old same old. Watch your dreams tonight. That's you sans body! Death in other words. What are we all affirming and seeking so?
Posted: Feb 26, 08 9:38pm
tweedledum, I'm going to approach this differently . . .
What leads you to believe that today's major religions don't have any intention of realizing their personal spiritual potential?
Why are you interested in "spirituality as it's positioned by some of the major world religions"? Curiosity? Advancing toward Truth? . . . .?
Posted: May 4, 08 3:39am
What is this "full potential" and what is it for? Just for kicks? More personal power? To get laid more? To be "happy" (whatever that is)? Have a comfy retirement?
(The tone may be snippy, but my question is serious).
Posted: Feb 23, 08 2:47pm
Judi's responses to Mick's Questions of 2/22/08:
Judi,
Being already saved is perfectly correct. Well stated there! I have a few questions for you on the rest of your post here.
Do you agree that salvation can be defined as being One with God? NO. BEING ONE WITH GOD IS ONE OF THE 40 WONDERFUL GIFTS GIVEN AT THE MOMENT WE ARE SAVED.
Being saved, does this mean also that you, Judi, are as evolved as or more evolved than Jesus?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN? SINCE JESUS CHRIST IS PERFECT, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BECOME “MORE” EVOLVED. BESIDES, HE DIDN'T 'EVOLVE'. HE IS & HAS ALWAYS BEEN PERFECT & IS IMMUTABLE (NEVER CHANGING).
If so, why is there a need for a 'relationship' (which implies duality, the point opposite of being 'One with'?) A RELATIONSHIP IS NEEDED IN ORDER TO HAVE THE SAME POWERS THAT JESUS CHRIST UTILIZED WHEN HE WAS 100% GOD & 100% MAN DURING HIS EARTHLY MINISTRY. HE WAS THE PROTOTYPE FOR LIVING THE PERFECT LIFE IN THE DIVINE DYNASPHERE.
How do you, Judi, answer these four questions: (Yes or No answers only, I know you have a penchant for words)
1. I have implicit trust in myself and in the process of life. YES
2. I do not create any unnecessary personal suffering for others or myself. NO, I make mistakes.
3. All of my primary relationships are free from personal conflict. YES
4. I come together with others in relationships beyond all individual and collective conditioning into which I was born. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
Posted: Feb 23, 08 3:50pm
If I can inter-act with you a little Mick. "One with God" means to me is, living and listenning to depth of inner small voices, which is(holy sprit in Christian term) dwelling in all of us. And its voice get louder for us decent people, thus as long I listen to that voice, I am free from conflict within, but I maybe a conflict with others or vice-versa. It is a life long precess to realize that we are spiritual being.
Often I heard that Christians said that they are saved, but my question is from what? And if they are saved, why they(some)are conducting themselves such way, which is not much different from so call "unsaved". Perhaps it is life long process to become a whole,="saved"
Posted: Feb 24, 08 1:13am
miokim7, I understand that society seems to hold Christians to a higher standard, expecting them to be perfect. Christians are human & make mistakes. Should Christians behave different than their unsaved counterparts? Absolutely! Sadly, though, many of them don't learn about God as they should after they are 'saved', and without the daily filling of the Holy Spirit and intake of bible doctrine, it is impossible to tell the difference between a believer and an unbeliever, but God does know the difference. Each person has to make their own choice in this matter.
Just like in salvation, God does not make us have positive volition toward bible doctrine, and we are disciplined when we don't, just like any parent would do for their children.
In answer to your question as to what are we saved from?: "For all have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God." So, anything short of God's perfection is referred to as "sin". "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
A perfect & just God cannot have fellowship with us when we are in a sinful state, so He sent His perfect Son, Jesus Christ, to pay the penalty or wages for all of our personal sins. When we believe in Jesus Christ & His work on the cross for these sins, we are "saved" from spending eternity in the Lake of Fire (hell), & from being separated from our Creator for eternity. We are given 40 gifts immediately at the point of salvation as God establishes a personal relationship with those who believe.
Posted: Feb 24, 08 11:13pm
Judi...I'm with Moikim on this one. What exactly is it that we're going to be saved from? What does saved mean? Now is it possible to answer this question without reference to what someone else said it is in a very old book? At some point after much pondering about God, heavens, hells...I realized that the truth was I really don't know. From that point A new kind of learning (spirtual practice?) began. As for me I know I don't hold people who label themselves Christian human beings to a higher standard than I would any other human being.
warmly,
K
Posted: Feb 26, 08 4:38pm
Okay Judi...if you don't come down from the pulpit soon I think I'm going to have to switch my spirituality to Tweedle dees copious consumption of spirits...
warmly,
K
Posted: Feb 26, 08 5:02pm
Kenny, I was answering a question. Oops! It didn't agree with what you guys believe. Surprise!!
Yea, Kenny, I'll quit 'preaching'. I'll quit having an opinion that's different. I'll agree that we all ought to find our inner child, embrace the universe, and hope that the great human that we each are can solve their own problems & become united in the celestial dust that floats to our earth and bonds with our innermost being, resulting in peace for all.
We've done a great job thus far, as the news will bear this out. We certainly have 'evolved' . . .So, let's keep up the good work!! Yeah!!
How was that, Kenny? ;)
Posted: Mar 2, 08 5:42pm
Hi Judi,
I have a question for you.
Above you mentioned...
"Do you agree that salvation can be defined as being One with God? NO. BEING ONE WITH GOD IS ONE OF THE 40 WONDERFUL GIFTS GIVEN AT THE MOMENT WE ARE SAVED."
What are the other 39 wonderful gifts from God? Or is the term "forty" an image of many gifts than exact quantity?
Thanks,
Amy
Posted: Mar 4, 08 10:05pm
Hey Mick - I've been absent - spending the last several weeks watching my mother's spirit leave her body. Literally. Friday, Feb. 29, 6PM.
I appreciate your challenging the spiritual beliefs of others, in the spirit of helping us all really understand what it is we really believe in. However, comparing the validity of one's faith vs. another's is counterintuitive to the whole idea of faith itself. Ultimately it is the disagreements re: the validity of religious beliefs that has historically divided the people of this planet.
Hypothetical, rhetorical, theoretical discussions on the merits of one belief vs. another only emphasize our differences. It is high time we started to find common ground.
Live, let live, love one another. It's a start, eh?