This is quite helpful. I'm going to read it whenever I get my feelings hurt...:-)

Thanks, Dee and Kat.

"I cut because I care."

If I thought a piece was worthless, I'd say so. All fuzzy bunnies into the wood chipper!

My goal when I critique is to show the writer how the writing can be improved according to my views. That's the thing, you see: According to *my* views.

I'm not Super Editor, not even his trusty sidekick, and there are thousands of far more qualified reviewers than me. I offer what I can. Ideally, the writer will take what's profitable and leave the rest.

Remember my story "6-A"? I've already submitted it to a small magazine and I will submit it to a premiere literary magazine this week.

I sent it to a friend for review after I'd rewritten some of it, and he gave back some negative opinions. (He felt the opening paragraph was weak and had no hook, and that the season ought to be changed from Thanksgiving to Easter.) It took a few hours for me to get over the shock of his criticism. I had to remind myself his critique wasn't personal. So I thought about what he said, tried to separate my feelings from my judgment of what he said, and while I felt his second point wasn't valid, his first was. I made the appropriate change. The story now feels stronger and more compelling.

I can still feel areas I need to fix, but I'm writing at the limit of my ability and I don't know what else to change or how, so I shrug my shoulders and submit the best I can do right now. This is a learning process.

Ken, excellent perception. Critique is an opinion but often contains information that has relevance.

One comment you made that I would like to challenge is where you say that you are writing "at the limit of my ability." My own belief is that as we learn, our writing gradually shifts and ability needs to be modified by the adjective, PRESENT.

I had the good fortune to have been published a number of years ago. If I were to write about the same information today, it would look something like what I submitted and was accepted but I feel that today, I have a richness of timbre that I lacked when I was writing in my forties. A generation of experience coupled with a new way of looking at words and sounds and sentences would allow my writing today to be deeper. I did learn more about the process of writing itself as well as additional slants on the information I related.

When I critique, it is not with the intent of imposing my POV on the writer. It is simply my reactions to what I am reading and is one person's opinion. Often, I will choose to examine one element of a story only and spend an essay looking at a paragraph. I always try to review a principle of writing not a piece of writing.

If you look at what passes muster in the marketplace, there is some garbage that wouldn't get a B in an eleventh grade composition class but because of the name of the writer or the subject matter, it passes muster for economic reasons. To me, writing is far more than passing some minimum standard. It is striving toward a goal that may be unreachable but nonetheless is worth pursuing.

Often, I critique to remind myself of an important principle. I learn from reading far more than I learn from writing. As often, I critique an issue that I was critiqued for at a similar point in my own writing growth. I know that until a writer crosses that particular boundary, he or she will not grow further. An example is being able to hear what you write so that you understand that sound is as important as meaning, especially when you are writing fiction.

The process of the critique is difficult. You know you are reading a piece of this writer's soul, sent to the masses for appreciation and understanding. You know he/she has taken time and effort to present their thoughts, feelings, emotions with words so that the reader can absorb them and refeel with the writer. So, even though a particular piece doesn't move and grab hold, it doesn't mean it should be shredded, pulled apart by the reader; changed to make it the reader's words and not the writers. For then, everything would sound and be the same. Comments and feedback are just that; comments and feedback. The work should still be appreciated for the sheer aspect that we, as writers, understand the time, effort, sometimes angst, feelings, and desire to get our words out, to share, to deliver pieces of ourselves. I personally don't like mystery novels, detective stories; Grisham has never moved me. I do, however, appreciate the time and effort that it took to create these works, and if asked, would say so. I'm sure I could find something in the writing to endear me to it.

On the other hand, when I, as a writer, present a piece of myself to the group for suggestions, I am willing to accept them. If a piece is too raw, too emotional, too bloody and not yet scabbed, I personally will shelve it, protect it, until it is no longer too painful to share. It is not that I don't appreciate the suggestions; but it is still my work and I have said what I meant. If your suggestions make it better, then Thank You. If they are mean-spirited or written just to impress; to hear yourself blather on and on about your own self-importance and your know-it-all intellectualism, then please save yourself the trouble. I will not be offended, but I will not listen either.

I have found Tier II to be an interesting place; not friendly, not welcoming, not hostile but not a place I am entirely comfortable with. There seem to be many of us who don't visit and I am puzzled as to why. Good writers, interesting writers, writers with wonderful voices who I'm sure have wonderful things to say. But they do not post. They are not sharing of themselves. Perhaps they are afraid; afraid that their very intentions will be misunderstood, mistaken, thoughts and emotions and feelings miscommunicated and thrown bleeding into the wind. TWG is like the park; swings and slides and laughter and cool, green grass with open spaces. We know we will have a good time when we visit. Tier II is like the forest; sometimes unfriendly, closed in, with dark places where it is easy to get turned around. You can be so sure when you enter that you are on the right path, when suddenly you find yourself very much lost and alone and you must find it in yourself to get back home where it is safe and yours again.

KenWritez,

This is such solid feedback on the subject of feedback! And it was particularly potent for me, this morning, as I read a friend's comments (sent privately) on my story, "Stevie and the Eight of Hearts." I am learning, slowly, to depersonalize the critique, to let it in.

You are right: not every comment from every reader is going to translate into a change in the piece. That's the subtler process of accepting feedback; knowing when to stand by your story.

Good luck with "6-A." It's good, and deserves an audience. And thank you for your continued trust in and cogent contributions to Tier II.

- akabukowski

TraumaGoddess,

What an interesting analogue... the forest vs. the playground. Apt, I suppose. People shouldn't feel as "comfortable" posting at Tier II as at TWG. The mission is plainer. Tier II is a place to share work for comment. And comment cannot be prescribed by the writer. It will come, subjectively and we hope honestly and supportively, as a distillation of the reader's reactions to the writing.

I very much like what KenWritez says, "I cut because I care."

Cutting causes discomfort at the least; pain at worst. But for the writer hoping to grow and learn, and certainly for the writer hoping to publish, this sometimes painful process is necessary.

I am grateful for the sober tone of Tier II and don't experience the ethos as "unfriendly." It is what I had hoped for when I started the group.

- akabukowski

Interesting perspective, TG, and your analogy of TWG as a playground is dead-on.

If someone is looking for a playground that happens to feature writing, then TWG is a good spot. I like hanging out there sometimes, especially if I can tweak BMike's nose. If someone wants to improve their writing by giving and receiving in-depth critique, then T2 is the more appropriate venue. TWG and T2 have different emphases and serve different audiences. One isn't more worthy or valid than the other. Apples aren't more worthy than oranges.

I think what you perceive as unfriendliness or darkness on T2 is a group dynamic of greater focus on writing than playing.