Dutchtreat, You realize of course, that a lot of songs will have to be changed now don't you ? lol. I am not concerned with being PC, so I'll say I'm proud to be an American, living in the USA.

When you write..."very few of us can make a claim to have made more than an infinitesimal contribution to the whole of America." Thank you for deriding my service to my country... America and all that have given their lives in the service. I served 6 years as a soldier, 12 years as a police officer. infinitesimal indeed, what have you done?

My son's, all four of them have served their country and one of them is still serving in the U.S Army having just returned from Iraq. As imperfect as it is, I love and I'm proud to be an American.

Barack and Michelle Obama hate America. If there is any doubt just read her masters thesis and listen to his speeches. He actually told the truth in one of his early public speeches when he said..." America is the greatest nation in the world, join with me to change that". Boy if that isn't the truth, if he's elected president the only change we will have will be small change in our pockets..

You go Dinky ! I could not make that claim but am glad you could. I totally agree with you on Obama. Don't care who doesn't like it. My opinion.

Is this a contest? I served 9 years in the USN. Listen, Dinky, take the knot out of your shorts for a moment; I mean no disrespect to anyone, past or present, who has served this country in any capacity. I'm just talking simple math. There are currently ~300,000,000 American citizens. Over the history of our republic the total number of people who could ever claim citizenship is probably around 450 to 500 million.

We all contribute something, and in an Oprah-style, were-all-unique-snowflakes, sort of way we are all important to the fabric of society. But the simple truth is that my contribution has been negligible in the grand scheme of things and, sorry to bust your ego-bubble, but so has yours. If I could travel to some kind of alternate reality where you had never been born, I'm confident that I would not notice any difference.

There ARE some individuals who have made crucial contributions, but these "essential men" are few and far between. George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson. A few of the Founding Fathers were crucial in shaping this country, some presidents -- maybe a half-dozen to ten out of the 43 that have served so far, a handful of Senators, Representatives, Justices, Generals, Admirals, etc. And then some civilians as well -- Martin Luther King, Sojourner Truth, Andrew Carnegie, even Bill Gates. There's a reason why we recognize these names. And a reason why I have no idea who you are and vice versa.

Barack and Michelle Obama hate America? Hardly. And you know that's not really true, yet despite your supposed Christian values you readily "Bear false witness against your neighbors". (Careful! The big White Guy in the Sky is watching you!)

Being critical of certain aspects of our society and certain actions of our government is not the same as "hating America". When Christian evangelists say that 911 and Katrina were God's vengeance against America for tolerating feminists and gays, that's hating America.

I want certain changes in law and society, and I'm certain that you do as well (although almost certainly not the same changes). Does that mean we hate America or that we love it and want to improve it? I think my kitchen is too small and I really need to do something about the concrete work in the driveway and I've got a dry rot problem on the patio doors. Does that mean I "hate" my house? No. I want to improve it.

Dutch

Dutch, Talk about getting your knickers in a twist, wow, lead the way. Thank you for your service to America.

Dutch, I didn’t “…bear false witness against your neighbors.”, It’s my belief based on my personal investigations. Then you say… “supposed Christian values”, go ahead and bite me.

When you have read the master’s thesis of Michelle Obama, then you can make your allegation and arguments. She is a white hater, and an American hater, she is a perfect example, as is her husband of affirmative action at it worst and God know what else time will reveal. We have only just started our investigation into these new persons on the political landscape, so far they don’t look too good.

As far as the far-right, so called “Christian evangelists“ religious wing-nuts, they sure don’t speak for me or the Christian majority in this country. Sure there are problems in America and these things need to be fixed, but the Obama’s are not the ones to do it.

Look, Dink, this is getting nowhere. We have political disagreements and that isn't going to change no matter how many electrons we waste debating it. I haven't read Michelle's thesis and frankly, unless I were to travel to her university and check it out of the library for myself, I wouldn't trust anything I saw on the Net that purported to be such.

When discussing race relations -- and this is the last I'll speak on it, since this is just the wrong discussion topic for that -- it's helpful to remember that the wrongs against black Americans isn't just some distant memory that some malcontents are exploiting to gain undeserved advantage. Legal segregation and discrimination is still within the memory of many living black Americans.

I was eight years old when the voting rights act was passed. If you take that as the end of official discrimination, then the black experience in America consists of 200 out of the last 232 years suffering under first, slavery, then all manner of Jim Crow laws. And it's not as if personal bigotry has disappeared. There's probably still a good 10% or so of folks that simply won't ever vote for a black man for president simply on the basis of race.

So let's get back to my main theme. Turn this thing around; there is a movement -- misguided in my opinion -- for reparations for slavery. The idea is that "white" America owes "black" America for past wrongs. Now my ancestors, as far as I can tell, got here just after the civil war and none of them owned any slaves. I certainly haven't, and I haven't ever consciously, overtly, practiced racial discrimination.

So the question is: Should I feel guilt for this country's history of slavery and discrimination? Since I didn't have anything directly to do with any of it, my answer is no. I sympathize with their experience and I think it's an issue that needs to be taken into account in certain situations, but I feel no personal responsibility.

So if I can eschew responsibility for the wrongs and downright evil in our country's history, how can I then turn around and claim pride for the good?

Dutch

I feel no guilt what so ever for this country's history of slavery and discrimination? I never owned a slave, nor did my family. While I'm sorry it ever happened, if there were a do-over we should pick our own cotton.