You'll get no argument from me regarding that.

I completely agree.

I don't comment in many of the heated discussions (the religions/spiritual ones are equally vehement) because it's clear we have forgotten how to "agree to disagree". I have a couple theories about why this doesn't happen here.

First, I think that it's a way to express lots of not so repressed anger in a safe way - meaning it's not blowing up at your family, etc, but at strangers to whom you can be as abusive as you like. Similarly, it's a control issue - can I force you to see things my way by saying that you're an idiot if you don't? And then there's the respect/courtesy issue - or lack thereof - that seems to be a dying value. And if someone doesn't agree with you, and we accept it, somehow we feel as if we've lost.

It's really sad that we've lost the ability to state what we feel, listen, discuss without becoming abusive/personal and let it go.

Great role modeling we're doing for our kids, huh?

I truly believe all points that you hit upon. Your response is exactly the type I was looking for when I proposed the initial discussion.

I hope we can get some more inputs such as yours; and then, just maybe, we can help to shed some light on the road to take to help us all get out of this quagmire (sp?) we have dug for ourselves.

Thanks again and have a great evening.

PS. your last comment is the A#1 reason why we must "find our way home"! If we don't, then who will teach the children?????

I hope so, too. I'm with you.

When you don't buy into someone else's position, I think many get defensive...and feel the need to grab a sword to silence the opposition. Since many aren't armed with all the facts, aggression works better and faster...takes a lot less brain power. A pity.

Hey Dan, you hit one of those proverbial nails on the head. Actually, two nails. First, the defensive issue. People get defensvie so quickly these days. Why can't they just realize that an intellectual argument is just that; intellectual; not personal. If people could just back off a little and see that the other person is NOT taking pot-shots at them; it's just a difference of opinion. Then again, a lot of people come across so strong that it's hard to not 'see the forest for the trees'.

As for the agression, you (again) are correct. People need to learn to relax and juust learn. If they don't have "all the facts" then maybe they should: 1) not be in the conversation; or 2) be quiet and learn some new things. They can agreee or disagree at some later time once they have had the chance to digest the information.

Has anyone noticed that it's so much easier to take a negative stance/opinion then it it to move into the positive direction?? This may be another justification for (both) your comments Dan.

Just a quick thought/question about this, because I agree that defensiveness is a huge part of the inability to "agree to disagree" - what causes defensiveness in argument?

The two things I come up with are insecurity and that some part of what is said is true, but somehow threatens the listener.

So, to start talking about how to defuse or create conversations that are productive, the insecurity or lack of confidence must be removed. Then the question becomes, can an external force help with this? Or is it the responsibility of the listener?